Am I Going To Buy A Fake Sonnar 1:2 f=5cm?

Discussion in 'Collector's Corner' started by radi(c)al_cam, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. radi(c)al_cam

    radi(c)al_cam Leica Place Regular

    64
    Oct 20, 2016
    Alexander
    I'm not sure whether this is the correct subforum (please move it accordingly), since so far all I can offer are the seller's pictures and the very few informations they provide:



    210_-1482760813. 210_-1100879541. 210_-1934698689. 210_-1157831733.


    According to the seller, it's a Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 50/2 in «M39».

    Unfortunately, they don't state whether it was initially an LTM, or converted to Leica Mount —, or something completely different, perhaps?

    The reason why they want to sell it is decluttering of their collection, and: after the purchase of this lens they would have discovered that the front lens has a scratch (which had been «concealed» by the previous owner, they say). Hm.

    Anyways, they offer it for a very modest price — less than EUR 50,-- — what do you say?
     
  2. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    Definitely adapted to LTM using a Jupiter-8 mount from the 1960s. The SN of name name ring puts it in a batch of 4000, finished in 1938. Also note that the J-8 aperture ring has been used in place of the original winged-ring of the CZJ Sonnars. I've done many F2 Sonnar (20 or so) conversions like this. I have two now.

    15629693639_e1e613a432_o. canonp_sonnars by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

    The wartime apture rings thinned out a little and can be used, the pre-war rings must be exchanged.

    It's worth the price: the parts would cost you more.

    The front element is stamped into a metal ring with a unique SN: if the scratch is deep, fill it in with black ink or paint. If it is a "heavy cleaning mark", don't worry about it OR use an eyeglass repair kit on it.

    I'm going to put this into the "Collector's Corner"-
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  3. radi(c)al_cam

    radi(c)al_cam Leica Place Regular

    64
    Oct 20, 2016
    Alexander
    Brian, I'm very glad to learn that I'm going to buy not a «fake» Sonnar, but: what is the proper denomination after such a surgery?

    Do you have a terminology established for your transplanted lenses?

    I would have said «chimera» is to an extent a correct description, particularly since it sounds a bit mythical, and that's certainly not wrong regarding Bertele lenses :)
     
  4. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I label them as "converted" or "adapted" to Leica mount. I've converted about 70 Sonnar 5cm lenses, 50 F1.5 and 20 F2. In 20 years, a lot of people will be very confused!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. radi(c)al_cam

    radi(c)al_cam Leica Place Regular

    64
    Oct 20, 2016
    Alexander
    Now I can read the numbers too: looks like 2272120 (not sure regarding the last three).

    :2thumbs: … And in 2067, expert X will say: «This one lens is not listed in the authoritative Sweeney Lens Diary, but definitely Sweeney School.» Expert Y will answer: «You're wrong. Everyone knows that the lenses Brian worked on around his 95th birthday are missing in his diary. This one is clearly one of that time frame.» Expert Z: «I was guest when Brian had his 95th birthday. That day some 40 lenses arrived in his mail, but because, only a couple of days previously, he had been promising that he'll retire he converted them secretly. Hence they're not mentioned in the diary, but in a secret Addendum that I happen to know.» And so on, an so on :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
    • Funny Funny x 3
  6. radi(c)al_cam

    radi(c)al_cam Leica Place Regular

    64
    Oct 20, 2016
    Alexander
    Update: I was rejoicing too early — although I was offering to pay a tad more than the seller wanted, he sold it to another person who apparently had discovered the ad earlier. :(

    OTOH, it’s basically good to see when a seller has promised to sell an item for a certain price, they remain faithful, even when a second buyer tries to interfere.
     
  7. Hap

    Hap Leica Place Top Veteran

    501
    Jan 9, 2016
    This is quite funny, actually. Primarily because it is realistic.

    Perhaps Brian ought to do something like a bar and proclaim "last call!"

    All I know is that when I try to sell my Sweeney adjusted J8 for 20K in 2040....it will come with a FBI certified copy of his removed fingerprint from the lens barrel and a DNA analysis and instructions for cloning on a home 3D molecular printer as well as a "for sale" download of his brain circuitry including an electronic copy of Brian authorized refutations of corrupted history.

    A very good friend of mine, a legendary architect in Hawaii and 7 years apprentice to Ansel Adams (and house guest with Minor White, Paul Caponigro and many others) looked at an APUG listing for a Deardorff 4x5 with a 5x7 back I sent him.....describing how Ansel and friends would use this camera. He responded "they have it backwards!.....all of them used Deardorff 5x7 cameras with 4x5 reducing backs".

    This will happen to Brian....corrupted by experts.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1