Jupiter 8 with 18 aperture blades?!

Discussion in 'Collector's Corner' started by Themontyburns, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. Themontyburns

    Themontyburns New to Leica Place

    4
    Apr 10, 2017
    Evening folks,

    Newbie here so go easy...

    Just picked up a Chrome 50's Jupiter 8 with 18 aperture blades on Ebay for £60. I cannot find a thing about this type anywhere on the Internet.

    Any ideas? Opinions? How do you think the quality of image will differ?
     

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  2. Greyelm

    Greyelm Leica Place Rookie

    13
    Mar 31, 2013
    S.London
    Malcolm
    I have a 1956 Jupiter-8 which has 9 blades and the focussing tab. I had a quick look in Pricelle's - The Authentic Guide to Russian and Soviets cameras but couldn't find an obvious mention of an 18 blade version of the J-8. The only mention I could find on the net referred to a 16 blade Jupiter-9/85. I wonder if you have a rare lens.

    As far as effect on the image I would expect the 16 blades to give a different bokeh to the 9 blades.
     
  3. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I've never seen a Sonnar (or J-8) with 18 blades: twice the normal number. I suspect this lens was experimentation and assembly practice for Zeiss parts coming into Russia. Somebody decided to really supe things up on this one!

    The focus mount is from 1955 through 1960 or so: the earlier tabbed J-8 mounts did not use the three screws for the rear.
    The 1952 SN: most likely Zeiss Glass, Zeiss barrel, finished in Russia. I have some "assembly practice" lenses from this period that have a one-off quality, like they were experimenting with making them on their own. Think of lots of parts and optics coming in from Germany after the war and then reverse engineering them. Ultimately: the Russian fixtures were better, but it took some time. I have some 1950 lenses that never worked, someone much later put them into a focus mount- to use them (those generally worked) or to sell them.

    If the images are good agreement with the RF: you should get some really good pictures with it. I'm sure it has Zeiss glass in it, from the SN.

    I have a 1952 J-12 with 1943 Zeiss serial numbers for the inner barrels. The focus was WAY off when bought, it is now the best J-12 I've ever used.
     
  4. Themontyburns

    Themontyburns New to Leica Place

    4
    Apr 10, 2017

    When you say the focus was way off Brian, would that be a case of altering the shims on the lens?
     
  5. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    The Shim is a thin ring that controls the stand-off between the optics and the focus mount. The focus mount has the RF cam. Typically a Russian lens needs an extra 0.1mm of stand-off to bring to the Leica spec. THIS J-12 required an extra 0.3mm- off by 2 meters at a 5m range.
     
  6. radi(c)al_cam

    radi(c)al_cam Leica Place Regular

    60
    Oct 20, 2016
    Alexander
    Hm, this seller is offering quite many lenses with surplus aperture blades; see their recently sold items:

    JUPITER-8 18 blades SILVER LEICA M39 (LTM) mount f=50mm 1:2.0 EXCLUSIVE LENS | eBay
    (edit: this is the one Jupiter-8 in question)

    — then here two Helios 44, e.g.:

    Helios 44-2 16 blades portrait 4K 2/58mm lens for m42 screw mount zebra style | eBay

    zebra Helios 44-2 16 blades portrait 4K 2/58mm lens for m42 screw mount SAMPLES | eBay

    The Helios-44 with 16 blades, and new (?) lens barrels. Interesting
     
  7. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    "ironglassadapters"I want him on this forum! What a great name for a seller.

    Starting out with a 1952 Jupiter-8, modifying it with 18-blades, and setting it in a tabbed/3-screw Focus mount: THAT is a lot of work! (I want one) Can you imagine paying DAG to modify a lens for 18 blades!

    I've "revitalized" one Contax/Kiev 1952 J-8 that has a bad front element, I replaced it with a slightly later one, and put in a tabbed focus mount. It was great. Zeiss glass. Sold it here for $125. 1954 marks the date when most switched over to Russian glass.
     
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  8. radi(c)al_cam

    radi(c)al_cam Leica Place Regular

    60
    Oct 20, 2016
    Alexander
    Let alone the «lomography.com» guys ;)
     
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  9. Themontyburns

    Themontyburns New to Leica Place

    4
    Apr 10, 2017

    When I get the lens I'll post examples. New to 35mm having only started with digital a year or so ago, so once I get the lens I'm guessing a few shots at varying apertures?

    If it's spot on I'm sure Ironglassadapters would do a roaring trade on here....
     
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  10. raid

    raid Leica Place All-Pro

    Apr 12, 2013
    USA
    Raid
    WOW. I want such a lens! How about a lens with 24 blades ... ?
     
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  11. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I think 18 is amazing! Let's not get too greedy!

    A little secret... My best Jupiter-3's are early KMZ, two from 1950 and one from 1952. All three have perfect glass. None of them could be used to take photographs as received, misassembled from the beginning. The focal length was wrong on all three of them, one was too short: had to put a spacer in to move the rear triplet out; one had the helical in the wrong position in the mount; one was so messed up I transplanted the glass into a 1950 mount that was filed down to move the rear triplet in. The same with some of the best lenses that I've sold: perfect glass because the lenses could not be used. I've had them with unpolished middle triplets and missing aperture blades.

    I think this seller in the Ukraine is a skilled repairman that knows what to look for.

    I'm thinking of posting a "tricks of the trade" hint section in this forum. Mostly lessons learned by trial and error, some with photographs. I need to go through my folders on lens repairs.
     
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  12. Themontyburns

    Themontyburns New to Leica Place

    4
    Apr 10, 2017
    IMG-20170421-WA0001. Ladies and gentlemen,

    It turned up today, in its branded box, branded lens bag, with an original Russian (swapped for my Hoya G/Y in the photo) yellow filter, and it is MINT.

    Focuses at infinity, and as far as I can tell 1m. Glass is clear as day...can't see any oil on any one of the 18 blades.

    Search this company out. They're unbelievable. Focusing ring has more resistance than my black 80''s one and seems to be longer throw.

    Can't wait to use it.
     
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  13. raid

    raid Leica Place All-Pro

    Apr 12, 2013
    USA
    Raid
    Which 50mm lens and with which aperture count is a good buy here?
     
  14. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I would wait for another 18-blade J-8 to come up. The tabbed mounts are mechanically the best.
     
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  15. raid

    raid Leica Place All-Pro

    Apr 12, 2013
    USA
    Raid
    I will wait, Brian.
     
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