Leica 262

Discussion in 'Leica News and Rumors' started by VINCETAN, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    710
    Aug 19, 2013
  2. Mijo

    Mijo Leica Place Veteran

    272
    Apr 11, 2013
    San Francisco
    Not surprising at all, very much in keeping with M-E (eliminating some features of the current model). I wondering if this is the new M-E though? If so why didn't leica adopt the same paint scheme as the CCD M-E? Or will there be another M-E in addition to the 262?

    While I'm not that interested in the 262 itself, I am interested in how this will effect the 2nd hand market for the CCD based M bodies.
     
  3. Mr_Flibble

    Mr_Flibble Leica Place Veteran

    488
    Aug 16, 2013
    The Lowlands
    Rick
    ME 262? ....there's a Luftwaffe joke in there somewhere.

    I'll get my coat.
     
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  4. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    It will be interesting to see if the High-ISO banding issue is less than what the M240 suffers. Without Liveview/Video the electronics can be simplified, clock speed reduced.

    I am surprised that Leica chose the "262" model number. Hard to ... "Swallow"... (anyone? Aircraft trivia) They seem to have a knack for this, the original M Monochrom is a "10760"- after the DCS-760, last monochrome Digital SLR made? I saw Adolph Galland at a seminar talking about the ME-262. An amazing aircraft, but had a 4-hour MTBF on the engines. The American Allison J-33 was more reliable- 80 hours.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
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  5. Ricoh

    Ricoh Leica Place Regular

    91
    Sep 8, 2015
    UK
    Steve
    In terms of running a business, I don't think it would make sense expending engineering effort changing the processing engine, or altering the clock speed. Just a tweak or two to the firmware, and some button reassignment.
     
  6. Duane Pandorf

    Duane Pandorf Leica Place Regular

    198
    Mar 30, 2013
    This one is on my gotta have list!
     
  7. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    Tweeking the clock is trivial, firmware is just typing. Getting rid of the video means they have a new degree of freedom to optimize for still photography. The Df uses the same sensor as the D4, video removed, clock video removed, less noise at high ISO. So they could if they want to, and there is a benefit if they do.

    30 years ago I'd use the phrase "It's just software". After almost 40 years of writing code for a living, 35 years of that working with embedded systems, "It's just typing".
     
  8. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    Looks like a good move and definitely a replacement for the M-E, priced even lower. I also like the M9 look with the "step" on the top plate.
     
  9. Ricoh

    Ricoh Leica Place Regular

    91
    Sep 8, 2015
    UK
    Steve
    Right, sounds like FPGA territory with uncommitted gates and functional blocks to be reconfigured by typists. I was in the mindset of software running on predetermined hardware.
     
  10. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    710
    Aug 19, 2013
    Just a few lines of codes, how hard could it be? LOL. That was the on going joke back when I was working for a consumer electronic company. Hardware design is usually quick and on time, software on the other hand, no matter how simple we think it is, like removing some features or tweaking some, it always ends up being the cause of the delay.
     
  11. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    Anyway- if Leica optimizes this camera in a fashion similar to Nikon optimizing the Df spun off from the D4, they could reduce noise at high ISO. I would like to see better High-ISO performance, something closer to my Df.

    What is a disappointment: The Leica M used to be the premier camera from Leica. The sensor and processor used in this camera is the same as the Model 240. The 24MPixel sensor in the Leica Q is superior, shows the advances in CMOS technology. I would have hoped that the Sensor and new processor (which is Little-Endian) used in the Q would get a microlens array suitable for the M-Mount and incorporated into the new model M. This M-262 is a replacement for the M-E, which is basically a 6-year old design. Leica has walked away from CCD's, which have improved over the last 6 years as well. Phase 1 still uses CCD's for their monochrome camera, and a 32MPixel 24x36 version of that CCD is manufactured.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
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  12. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    710
    Aug 19, 2013
    I think it is the Leica Way (LOL) of extending the lift of their design, adding a few more sales in the process without much cost
     
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  13. xdayv

    xdayv Leica Place Veteran

    404
    Mar 31, 2013
    Tacloban City, Philippines
    Dave
    I kinda like this model - no video, no live view... hhhmmm.
     
  14. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    710
    Aug 19, 2013
    You forgot to mention that it is also a little lighter. I wished that retool a bit and make it a little thinner. But I am sure that is not good for their balance sheet.
     
  15. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    It's quite a bit lighter than the 240, 15 grams heavier than the M9, and has a much more quiet shutter than either :)

    The lower price is good too.

    Not a revolution, but a nice edition :)
     
  16. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    791
    May 1, 2013
    Neat concept and executions. But nothing there to pull me away from the M9 and M240. And not an inkling of pull on me from the Leica S.

    Here's what I'd buy next: "M+" mount, Q camera's EVF, autofocus for new lenses, back-compatible with M-mount, and the Q's sensor and performance. Keep the body to Q-size.

    C'mon, Leica. I triple-dog-dare you!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  17. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    Looks like a smart move to me. Use up aging M240 components and offer a lower entry price. Its the exact same thing Leica did in 2012 with the M-E.
     
  18. Ricoh

    Ricoh Leica Place Regular

    91
    Sep 8, 2015
    UK
    Steve
    Having recently purchased an M240 it makes me really pleased to understand it's composed of aging components. I thought the life cycle of the iconic Leica far exceeded cameras of Japenese origin, but there we are. I'm not upgrading, I'm more interested in building my lens collection.
     
  19. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I've worked with computers for 40 years and digital imaging for 35 years. Advances in terms of speed, memory, resolution, signal to noise ratio, etc- has been mind boggling and continues at rapid paces. I use an 18 year old computer for writing code for embedded systems. I like it, am comfortable with it, do my best work on it. Same with cameras. I like the M9, M Monochrom, and M8. I'm comfortable with them, they produce the look that I like, and I've written my own code to process DNG files from them.

    If you like the camera you have, and it produces the look that you want- it's all you need. The Geek side of me would like to see Leica use a Back-Side-Illuminated sensor as it should do better with RF lenses compared with standard CMOS and give back the advantage that CCD sensors had.
     
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  20. brusby

    brusby Leica Place Regular Subscribing Member

    96
    Mar 1, 2014
    The M9 and M240 are capable of stunning photos in the right hands.
     
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