Leica announces new sensor in testing for M9/M Monochrom/M-E

Discussion in 'Leica News and Rumors' started by Brian, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    http://en.leica-camera.com/World-of...ws/Global/2015/Latest-information-CCD-sensors

    Leica has announced that a new sensor is in test, will be available soon. I suspect it is a revised KAF-18500 with an improved cover for the glass. I'm sure details will follow.

    ONSEMI Updated the Data Sheet for the KAF-18500 back in March, and Lead Times were longer than. I suspected something had to be around the corner.

    This is the old part-number...

    kaf-18500-nxa-jh-aa-08

    A new Part-Number shows up in the search on the site, but a data sheet is not available...

    kaf-18500-fxa-jh-aa-bg55

    "BG55" is a Schott IR cover glass, the original glass was S8612. SO- I believe that ONSEMI has replaced the S8612 cover glass with BG55 cover glass.

    http://www.schott.com/advanced_optics/english/download/schott-bandpass-bg55-dec-2014-en.pdf

    S8612:

    http://www.schott.com/advanced_optics/english/download/schott-bandpass-s-8612-dec-2014-en.pdf

    An older version of the S8612 data sheet.

    http://www.howardglass.com/pdf/s_8612_datasheet.pdf

    The older Datasheet shows "2 Exclamations" for the warning, the new one shows "1 umbrella". I've also seen it with a "Double Umbrella".
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
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  2. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/TND310-D.PDF

    I found the naming convention for the ON Semi products, Page 21 is for the former Truesense imagers.

    The "f" in "fxa" means that "2nd generation Pigment RGB" is in use. This replaced the "nxa" in the older part number. The "n" in "nxa" means a shorter RED pigment is used.

    This may all be "coincidence", and there is no data sheet available for the new part number. It has been added into the ON Semi search Engine. It offers the BG-55 glass, which was not in the Truesense Offering.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
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  3. dalethorn

    dalethorn Guest

    Upgrades possible?
     
  4. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    TY so much for the research Brian.

    Let's hope these are 30 year sensors :)
     
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  5. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    Don't think of this as an upgrade, think of it as an in-service revision to correct an environmental problem with the user's camera.

    S8612 passes more visible light than any other glass.

    Interesting- BG-55 was "relaunched" in 2011, after the M9 came out. So using BG-55 with the KAF-18500 is a new thing.
     
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  6. AlbertTRAL

    AlbertTRAL Leica Place Regular

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  7. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    That is what I remember for S8612- TWO umbrellas. The 2009 Data Sheet shows "two exclamation marks" and in 2009 that was the symbol for Group 3.

    I found a new data sheet, reducing it to "ONE Umbrella"...

    http://www.schott.com/advanced_optics/english/download/schott-bandpass-s-8612-dec-2014-en.pdf

    It may not mean much, but the double-explanation marks (2009) and double umbrella were used to indicate "Group 3" for humidity related corrosion. The Dec 2014 Data Sheet shows one umbrella. The new sheet clearly has One Umbrella, but this may not mean much. Or- they could have changed the coating or chemistry. Hard to tell, this is where you would contact Schott before selecting for use.

    IF you do UV Photography with the M9/M Monochrom/M-E: The S8612 glass appears to pass more than does BG55. Conservation of Inconvenience at work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  8. AlbertTRAL

    AlbertTRAL Leica Place Regular

    Almost 4 points around 500nm... and also affecting the blue but not the reds (this is why they have gone back to a longer red wavelength in the bayer filter, to equalize the three channels):
    jwWV3Wu.
     
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  9. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    Will this new cover glass also be used on the Monochrom, and will there likely be changes to how it renders tone?
     
  10. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I've sent an inquiry to Schott and asked to clarify the S8612 December 2014 datasheet with regard to the humidity grouping, which is different from that shown in the 2009 datasheet and 2015 catalog. IF the Dec 2014 datasheet is correct, and the chemistry was altered to improve corrosion resistance- that would mean nothing changed spectrally. Somehow, I think the datasheet might be in error.

    The BG55 glass cuts out more Blue than the S8612, so it will increase contrast "ever so slightly"- like a very weak yellow filter. That's a good thing.

    REMEMBER- "all this could be coincidence", but a reasonable approach would be to try to improve the corrosion resistance of the S8612 glass AND trying a glass like the BG55 that is more corrosion resistant.
     
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  11. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    My new M-E just went to Leica yesterday to have its sensor checked (I posted last month a line that appeared in images). Not sure if its just stubborn dirt or corrosion and don't care. They set up the appointment for when there is a sensor available so I won't have to wait months on a brand-new camera.

    If the sensor is just dirty I'll be delighted (and they will of course clean it for free), and if its corroded they will replace it and likely I'm delighted. If they replace it with the newer cover glass then even better.
     
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  12. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    @Brian@Brian, yes just what the M9 needs: more contrast LOL :)
     
  13. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I suspect that the change in cover glass and pigment for the color version of the sensor is to minimize change in output of the M9/M-E.

    The M Monochrom- a little more contrast would not hurt, and not everyone uses FORTRAN for this as I do...
     
  14. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I made a second inquiry to Schott regarding the Dec 2014 Data Sheet for the S8612 glass, as that glass now shows in the group that is supposed to be more resistant to humidity. I asked if the data sheet is in error, and if not in error: why didn't they change the part number. I suspect it is an error, and On Semi is using BG55 glass. BUT... and ideal solution would have been to change the chemistry of the S8612 to be more resistant to humidity and keep the same optical properties.

    I sent it from work. It will not be the first time that I've caught big errors in data sheets, and will not be the last time that a company changes the spec from such input.
     
  16. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I saw the original announcement at Leica, and have been following On Semi and Schott for developments. The On Semi website has a new data sheet for the KAF-18500 showing S8612 glass AND a new part number that pops up in the search on the website showing a version of the KAF-18500 using BG-55 cover glass and a new generation of color Dye. The BG-55 is in a group of glass that is more resilient to humidity. The STRANGE thing: The Schott S8612 data sheet of Dec 2014 changed the humidity rating from "Two Umbrella" (WORST Possible) to "One Umbrella". This might be possible, but I would expect the part number to be revised to avoid confusion with different manufacture dates/ production lots. "S8612A" or such would ease confusion. IF the S8612 glass is available and is resistant to humidity, it would be nice to use in a filter wheel along with a Wratten 88a filter for work in the Lab.
     
  17. AlbertTRAL

    AlbertTRAL Leica Place Regular

    Maybe changes coming on the Onsemi web site... No KAF-18500 available @ 16:50 C.E.T....
     
  18. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    They took it out of the line-up.

    I am going to guess that Leica is buying the full production and the spec sheet has been withdrawn.

    OR- the S8612 version is gone, and the BG-55 version is sold to Leica alone.

    Either way, I have the data sheets downloaded.
     
  19. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    So I wonder how many units Leica is getting, and if it will cover all of us M9 and MM owners going forward.