Leica CL with M21/3.4

Discussion in 'Leica T / TL / CL Forum' started by luo yi, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. luo yi

    luo yi Leica Place Regular

    26
    Jan 5, 2018
    I just bought a CL with the M21/3.4 mounted. I have never used the EVF before. I am not used to the focus-peaking yet. I feel that it is not as easy to focus precisely as the maunal lens on the DSLR. Does any friend like to share your experiences in the focus-peaking? Also, your experiences in using the M lens on CL are appreciated.
     
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  2. luo yi

    luo yi Leica Place Regular

    26
    Jan 5, 2018
    woooooooo. When the M lens is attached, the F values cannot be transferred to the body. Therefore, no F information will be recorded in the EXIF.
     
  3. Captmatt

    Captmatt Leica Place Rookie

    19
    May 2, 2014
    Homer, AK
    Matt Wilkens
    Don't know the CL, but use focus peaking on Sony A7 and M240. On A7 it works great, especially with magnification, much easier to focus then using a dslr and a manual lens. On the M240 it sucks, or I haven't figured it out yet. The magnification helps though and still makes it reasonably easy to focus a manual lens. I would guess the CL would be somewhere in between the two, but can't say for sure.
     
  4. luo yi

    luo yi Leica Place Regular

    26
    Jan 5, 2018
    Thanks for your input. I use manual lens on nikon. i just to turn the focus ring back and forward to find the 'best' point. The camera does has a led indicating the focus lock. the indicator is located on bottom of the screen. if you want to confirm the focus lock, you have to turn your eyes to indicator. it is not a pleasant experience, i need to say.
     
  5. Burkey

    Burkey Leica Place Regular Subscribing Member

    64
    Dec 8, 2017
    Congratulations on your new CL. Yup, no connection/no data to the camera with m-mount lenses.
    The focus peaking used with magnification on the CL is very handy for focusing but with an interesting caveat. If you manual focus wide open you may find that getting the peaking indicator to show is difficult. However, if you close down a stop or two it's easier to see. To me that makes little sense because you will get the most accurate focus with the least depth of field present. I hope it's something Leica addresses in the future with a firmware update.
    Good luck with your CL and please post some images when you get a chance. ;-)
    . . . David
     
  6. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    849
    May 1, 2013
    There are two primary conditions that focus peaking algorithms have problems with:

    1) The picture is too soft overall, such that the focus peaking algorithm doesn't "see" any regions meeting its criteria.

    2) Too much of the picture is in focus, such that the algorithm can't reasonably show you what's in focus versus what isn't without just showing a big "white blob" (or whatever color your focus-peaking displays as).

    The first condition above is what David describes. For a lens that's a big chunk of glass and "f/1.0" or some-such (e.g., lenses that go "noct" in the night), often that wide-open aperture is a little soft. It's a trade-off for the lens not being even bigger, heavier, and more expensive than it already is. If you need sharp (and sharp enough to trip the focus peaking algorithms), stop it down a bit. If you need to gather the light, or get razor thin depth of field, open it way up and accept the softer response and little-to-no help from focus peaking.

    The 21mm at f3.4 on a CL is under the second condition above. It's tough to have much of anything out of focus with this lens because it's such a wide-angle with a pretty tight aperture - even wide open. The region that is in focus will be so big that camera would end up showing you a big focus-peaking "blob."

    Some cameras will have more sophisticated focus peaking algorithms than others. Playing games with tripping thresholds based upon aperture, focal length, eigenvalues and foo-foo to boost context specific sensitivity without being over-sensitive. Leica being a smaller company with fewer years of focus-peaking experience than a 'Sumo Camera Company of Japan' won't do quite as well ...

    Reminder - What Leica do put their absolute best minds and resources into: glass and sensor pairings that produce real-world exemplary images. Well, that and snazzy high-end mechanicals.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  7. Burkey

    Burkey Leica Place Regular Subscribing Member

    64
    Dec 8, 2017
    Carl - that was an exceptional explanation! Thank you very much. When I first started shooting with full-size broadcast cameras - Ikegami for example, they had the most hyperactive peaking in them imaginable. It was an extreme annoyance and most of us "photogs" would just shut it off. Thank goodness Leica set theirs up a bit more conservatively. Although. . . a firmware update with a peaking intensity option wouldn't be the, well, the worst thing in da' world. :rolleyes-79:
    Overall the CL has really proven to be a winner.
    Again, a great explanation. Thank you.
    . . . David
     
  8. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    849
    May 1, 2013
    No probs. Have to keep waiting on the CL for a bit ... Expenditures for my kids just whacked the billfold badly!
     
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  9. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    849
    May 1, 2013
    Question - is that a Leica adapter and is the 21/f3.4 6-bit coded? If "no" to either, the camera can't make reasonable deductions what the f-stop might be - unless you've manually told it what the lens is. The M Leicas do make guesses about f-stop, as does an SL, they put that into the exif. I'm guessing the CL will do this too (if it knows what lens you're using), but perhaps they won't ...
     
  10. Burkey

    Burkey Leica Place Regular Subscribing Member

    64
    Dec 8, 2017
    Yup, that does happen. Student loans for our younger son are now here.
    . . . David
     
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  11. Burkey

    Burkey Leica Place Regular Subscribing Member

    64
    Dec 8, 2017
    My reply about the m-mount and no f-stop data was erroneous if in fact Leica lenses with coding are being used. Or, I suppose, a similar Leica version has been selected that alleges to be "like" the other brand of lens that's mounted up and no aftermarket coding was done.
    My apologies.
    Right now I'm using only Voigtlander and Zeiss lenses along with the crazy little Jupiter 8.
    I shoot only DNG and post in Lightroom. It's in LR I get to select the lens that was actually used. I'm amazed at the lengthy list of lenses under each manufacturer within the program.
    . . . David
     
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  12. budjames

    budjames New to Leica Place

    9
    Oct 30, 2017
    The new M10 stopped guessing f stops and puts "--" in the f stop metadata field. As a new comer to Leica, this was disappointing to not see the f stop value when editing images. Other than that, the IQ is really good.
    Regards,
    Bud James
    www.budjames.photography
     
  13. Burkey

    Burkey Leica Place Regular Subscribing Member

    64
    Dec 8, 2017
    Hi Bud,
    Are you shooting with Leica lenses that the 6-bit coding?
    . . . David
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  14. budjames

    budjames New to Leica Place

    9
    Oct 30, 2017
    Yes. My four Leica lenses, Summicon 28, 35 and 75 and Summilux 50, are all brand new.

    Regards,
    Bud James

    www.budjames.photography
     
  15. luo yi

    luo yi Leica Place Regular

    26
    Jan 5, 2018
    All of your responses are appreciated.
    I have not shot any pictures with the new CL yet due to busy office work these days. However, I tried the focus - peaking during the coeffe break in my office quite a few times.
    Yes, as you mentioned: the relative thin aperture of the M21/3.4A causes relative big DOF and a large extent of focus-peaking area as a consequence. this is not favor for a precise subject focusing indeed.
    This can be improved by using the magnification function at the same time. I found some tricks for combined use of the focus-peaking and magnification. (1) make a rough compositon; (2) turn the right wheel to magnify your focus subject and fine-tuning the focus; (3) half press the fire button and the frame changes to the original size simultaneously, this is amzing! (4) refine your composition and shot. After practices, these steps are very easy to finish in very short time. I checked the photos and found that the main subject were focused precisely.
     
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  16. Burkey

    Burkey Leica Place Regular Subscribing Member

    64
    Dec 8, 2017
    Luo - 'Glad to hear the CL and M21/3.4 are working out for you.
    . . . David
     
  17. luo yi

    luo yi Leica Place Regular

    26
    Jan 5, 2018
    Hope I can get along with this combo very well. Thanks!
     
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  18. luo yi

    luo yi Leica Place Regular

    26
    Jan 5, 2018
    By the way, dear friends, I have a question for your comments. I plan to buy a sencond lens for the CL. As the M21/3.4A (32.5mm on CL) is mainly for the documentary and street shot, I plan to buy a second lens for portrait. Meanwhile, I hope this lens is also good for street shot in the focal length around the 'normal' 50mm. I made some research according to the web reviews. I may have the following options. Leica lense group: M35/3.4A, M35/2A, M50/2, and M50/2.4; Zeiss group: ZM35/1.4, ZM35/2.8; Voiglander group: VM35/1.4, VM35/1.7, VM50/1.5. These lenses all deliver very good IQ, especially in point view of sharpness. Their rendering of color are the kind I like. For the Leica group, they should match the Leica CL the best among the three groups. Howerer, they are usually expensive than others. The Voigtlander group is usually the cheapest in price and has large apertutre and the color rendering is unique. However, the sharpness at the maximum aperture seems not so sharp as other lenses, accroding to the review by PCMAG. For the Zeiss group, the two lenses deliver very very sharp prictures even at their max aperture, especially the ZM35/1.4 even at f=1.4. However, the ZM35/1.4 is almost the biggest and heaviest one among all of the cited lenses. Meanwhile, either the Zeiss or the Voigtlander group is not optimized for the CL. To be recognized by the CL, they should be coded accordingly but I do not know how to do. How to select my second lense for the CL? My requirements include: portait and street shot, sharpness, large aperture, compatibility to the Leica CL body, compactness and light weight. The question seems radiculous. Anyway, your comments will be hghly appreciated.
     
  19. budjames

    budjames New to Leica Place

    9
    Oct 30, 2017
    To owners of the new Leica CL, I was wondering how fast the focusing is in poor light as the camera has only contrast focusing?

    I have Fuj-X XT2 and XPro2 and the focusing is very good under all lighting conditions, from my experience.

    Regards,
    Bud James

    www.budjames.photography
     
  20. Burkey

    Burkey Leica Place Regular Subscribing Member

    64
    Dec 8, 2017
    Hi Bud,
    I have a CL and the auto focus on the Summicron 23mm f2 is very fast, even in "low" light. I have a Summilux 35mm f1.4 TL on the way. I'll post about the lens and auto focus in low light when it arrives. Truth told, I'm not super fussy about auto focus in low light environments unless it ends up endlessly "hunting".
    . . . David