Leica M9 High ISO, beyond 2500

Discussion in 'Leica M Camera Forum' started by Brian, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    Took Nikki to the skating rink over the Christmas Break, brought the Canon 100/2 last week and the Nikkor 8.5cm F2 today. Most shots at ISO2500 gave a fast enough shutter speed. Except for when the lights went out and skating was by Disco Lights alone.

    Scottie, WE NEED A FASTER SHUTTER SPEED, emergency power to the main CCD array. Bring her down to ISO2500 and -2ev, bring curves up to full power.

    Leica M9, ISO10000 equivalent (2500 -2ev), Nikkor 8.5cm F2 wide-open, 1/45th sec.

    15984248679_7035a08c61_o. ISO10000eqv_1

    1/60th sec,

    15982866638_4dac42f2f1_o. ISO10000eqv_2
     
  2. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
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  3. raid

    raid Leica Place All-Pro

    Apr 12, 2013
    USA
    Raid
    I used my M9 at ISO 1600-2000 yesterday. I will upload what I got very soon.
     
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  4. rbelyell

    rbelyell Leica Place Veteran

    202
    May 25, 2014
    first let me apologize as i do not want to appear troll like or gratuitously argumentative, but i am really not sure if these were posted to show something positive. in all honesty all i see are blurry photos with tons of noise and color aberration. im no pro, nothing even close, but were these mine they would bring me no joy at all. again, this is a very nice forum, with very nice participants, the m9 is a fine camera and ive seen lovely photos from OP before, but i just cannot get my arms around anything positive here.
     
  5. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I like them- they show the motion involved. If you look at the fifth image, only the lead skate is in focus. That's because I am panning on it, and constantly focusing as my daughter is moving. "Follow-focus". That, and the camera is being used at two-stops past it's design maximum. I did not use noise-reduction in LR.

    This is ISO2500, better lighting. Nikkor 8.5cm F2, wide-open.

    15554727033_c3d35498f7_o. Skate and Fun

    16173760572_83ea3c8967_o. Skate and Fun

    Still requires follow-focus and panning with the action. I've brought the Nikon Df to the same rink, the higher-ISO is superior to the Leica. With the Disco lights, manual focus is more difficult and you cannot see out of the image area. I do better with the Leica.

    16174511055_be34b0e604_o. Skate and Fun
     
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  6. rbelyell

    rbelyell Leica Place Veteran

    202
    May 25, 2014
    perhaps its my monitor, but the last three you just posted look fine and exhibit none of the blur, noise or color issues i saw in the first two series. in fact, it appears on my screen that even the WB is different. were these three the original posting i wouldnt have made any negative comment. frankly shooting these movement shots in dim lighting at f2 at 85mm is a real tribute to your ability. thanks for posting these new ones and for not taking my original comments badly.
     
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  7. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    The last 3 shots- the skating rink turned the lights back on. When the lighting is only by the disco lights, it is very, very dark. Having used CCD's going back to Kodak's KAF-1600 of 1993, it amazes me that this sensor can get anything at ISO10,000. That's 6 stops above base ISO- and no noise reduction used.

    And I have to shoot pictures there- in that last shot, do you see that Kid checking out MY Daughter! Okay, he has a St Andrew T-Shirt on, might make the good list.
     
  8. brusby

    brusby Leica Place Regular Subscribing Member

    96
    Mar 1, 2014
    There's no accounting for taste -- I like the photos. If the first few were done with only colored disco lights, I'm amazed you got anywhere close to a natural color balance. Plus she's a moving subject in very low light so blur is almost impossible to avoid. Are they grainy? Of course, 'cause there's no NR . . . but all considered, I say nice job.
     
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  9. raid

    raid Leica Place All-Pro

    Apr 12, 2013
    USA
    Raid
    These images were taken at ISO 1600-2000: M9 with Canon 35/2

    New%20Year%27s%20Eve%20%207-XL.

    New%20Year%27s%20Eve%20%206-XL.


    New%20Year%27s%20Eve%20%201-XL.

    New%20Year%27s%20Eve%20%204-L.

    New%20Year%27s%20Eve%20%205-XL.
     
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  10. rbelyell

    rbelyell Leica Place Veteran

    202
    May 25, 2014
    perhaps thats true with the equipment used--and again i'm not putting down the m9 and certainly not the photographer whose final series showed great talent using portrait FL at a shallow DOF in difficult conditions.. however, ive shot roller derby in similar conditions as the first series, manual focus with different digitals including m4/3 and lets just say got results much different than you describe or are exhibited in the first series. theres an old saying to which i subscribe when it comes to using tools: 'horses for courses'. perhaps that should have been my original point.

    and yes, certainly, matters of taste are subjective. i was commenting on the more objective kinds of results most of us want to get out of our equipment under these conditions.
     
  11. raid

    raid Leica Place All-Pro

    Apr 12, 2013
    USA
    Raid
    Each light situation is different, and sometimes, the scene is so dark that almost no camera type will work well, but some cameras work and some don't in such dark scenes. Post what you have and let your images speak. Any information is useful when it is supported by the results.
     
  12. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    Just for comparison- this shot is ISO1250, with the 50/1.1 Nokton at F1.4. The main lights are on, so 1/350th sec shutter speed at F1.4 and ISO1250.

    14470525239_9cf8b52905_b. Skating- M9 and 50/1.1Nokton

    Last week with the Canon 100/2, ISO 5000, was getting 1/60th second as they left some of the main lights on for this shot.

    15897051739_cf857235d2_b. Canon 100/2, wide-open. ISO5000 eqv

    1/25th with the Canon 100/2, wide-open, ISO5000 eqv.

    16082817842_541cbf3c6b_b. Skate and Fun


    Noise reduction used in LR4.

    This week, they turned off all the main lights for the "Disco" portions of skating. The first shots Under the Disco lights, when I'm shooting ISO5000, F2, and 1/15th sec on some of the shots.

    Shots with the Df are cleaner, but my "hit rate" for in-focus and well-framed shots was very low. I just could not follow the action with the SLR. I'll bring the Nikkor 85/1.8 and the Df for the next visit.

    JUST FOR COMPARISON, as I am "unbiased" and a Nikon user as well,

    The Nikon Df, ISO25,600, Vivitar 135/2.3 wide-open.

    15927449118_006f47cfdc_b. Skating Rink, Vivitar 135/2.3, wide-open. iso25600_135 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

    ISO6400, main lighting is on.

    15927449168_fd3570eeb3_b. ISO6400_135_3 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr
     
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  13. rbelyell

    rbelyell Leica Place Veteran

    202
    May 25, 2014
    very useful comparison! that Df is just awesome, imo. had i that tool i wouldnt use anything else for lowlight photography--its just in a different place than any other camera ive seen, though i havent seen enough of the A7S. from what i have seen though, i'm subjectively very partial to the Df rendering.

    in this kind of situation, i personally hardly ever rely on AF. i just pre focus manually. i find i get many more keepers that way, though everyone has different comfort levels.
     
  14. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    My "Style" with the RF, the long-throw of the Canon 100/2 and Nikkor 8.5cm F2: continuous focus as the subject is moving, firing the shot when I liked the framing. On the slow-speed shots, continuous focus through the shot so it was ready for the sequence. I put the RF patch on the border of my daughter's shirt/pants and used that for focus. Must remember to tell her Pink shirt with Bluejeans next trip to the skating rink. I've used RF's since 1969 and SLR's since 1970. Shooting in this level of light is amazing. I like the colors of the Disco lights when the lights are down, will bring the Df with the 55/1.2 and 85/1.8 next time, will be a fair comparison.
     
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  15. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    The M Monochrom at ISO10000, 50/1.1 Nokton wide-open, 1/350th sec.

    15991842548_7cde0184b0_b. L1003540

    15556912334_3f6ae3da0c_b. L1003532

    Lighting back on, Nikkor 8.5cm F2 wide-open, ISO10000, 1/750th sec.

    16178514772_38c3d1cfeb_b. L1003599

    You pick up 1 F-Stop by getting rid of the RGB Dye. I think the CCD's for the M Monochrom are cherry-picked for uniformity. The images with the M Monochrom at ISO10,000 seem closer to the M9 at ISO2500. I've done side-by-side of the M Monochrom and Df at ISO5000, they were about equal. You don't get to over-sample and signal average with the CCD as you do with CMOS.
     
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  16. rbelyell

    rbelyell Leica Place Veteran

    202
    May 25, 2014
    just 1 stop? i had imagined--or maybe read--2 to 3! in any event, i think the MM is also a 'special' camera, though i could never justify paying its price given my meager talent for this hobby. nor the more elaborate PP thats required. i really like the first one.

    to my eye, the cmos on the Df is closer to ccd rendering than anything ive seen outside my rd1. if it took rf lenses and/or had split screen focus i'd have one already
     
  17. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    The color dye used by Kodak cuts the quantum efficiency by ~50%, they do not use true separation dye as was used in the three-color process. It's 1 stop. True color-separation filters lose 2 stops.
     
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  18. Corkey69

    Corkey69 Leica Place Rookie

    17
    Dec 11, 2014
    NW England
    John Neal
    Brian,

    Just gotta love those MM shots - great tones!

    I must take mine out soon.......

    Regards
    John
     
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  19. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
  20. Kookie B.

    Kookie B. Leica Place Regular

    40
    Dec 26, 2013
     
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