Leica Record Profit

Discussion in 'Leica News and Rumors' started by VINCETAN, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    709
    Aug 19, 2013
  2. Mijo

    Mijo Leica Place Veteran

    272
    Apr 11, 2013
    San Francisco
    I can believe it. 34 stores plus the second hand equipment sold by some of those stores. Not to mention the destination workshops and the regular workshops run out of those stores as well. Then there's their online platform, galleries and their partnership with panny. Good on Leica! I really like how the company isn't just focused on selling equipment but also fostering photography in general (i.e. GUP, Rolling with the Shadows, etc.)
     
  3. Hap

    Hap Leica Place Top Veteran

    501
    Jan 9, 2016
    I regard this "news" with a jaundiced eye. I'd like to have a better idea exactly where these increased revenues come from. There is just no breakdown of their business units to make a judgement. The market may have topped this year for global sales but it has to be crummy for North and South American sales and European sales. These economies are either stagnant or moribund. their partnership with Panasonic may indeed have fluffed up their revenues. Margins have to be pretty slim. However, Leica badging of plastic lenses for disposable cameras might be pretty profitable. Funny money from central banks everywhere helps a lot. Also have to look at currency markets which many companies have to engage to hedge currency risks.
     
  4. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    709
    Aug 19, 2013
    I wonder if the second hand equipment sale from the Leica store goes to Leica or the owner of those stores. The Leica store seems to be independently operated. It could be the sale of their X and V camera. I doubt it could be from the M, S, T or SL. If they are doing so well, I doubt that they would extend their 12% discount which they just extended again.
     
  5. dalethorn

    dalethorn Guest

    Few botiques are focused on high physical quality and durability to go along with the aesthetics.
     
  6. Hap

    Hap Leica Place Top Veteran

    501
    Jan 9, 2016
    You might be able to make a case that these days it is hard to sell anything without attempting to dupe us rubes into thinking we are getting a discount....hence a "12%" discount. However, I doubt that's what theyare doing unless making it up in currency markets...or jacking up the retail price.

    We know as denizens of the used marketplace that the prices of cameras and accessories are falling. This has to compete substantially with any new stuff and revenues do not accrue to Leica. Some folks are at or ahead of the Leica technology curve, but I can't imagine that's a horde of Huns. I am amazed at what my dwindling dollars can buy in DSLR and lens offerings. Even some not so old mirrorless thingies. Only thing hold the line somewhat are 60 year old Leicas.....and look alikes....and Hasselblads(grrrr).

    Something rotten in Denmark....an otherwise beautiful country. We know what's going on in Germany. Why did they take back production from Midland to Wetzlar?

    Wait until Leica gets the new bill from the US for the NATO "Proteksia".....
     
  7. Hap

    Hap Leica Place Top Veteran

    501
    Jan 9, 2016
    I'm hardly opposed to Leica.....they have made life interesting and engaging and I am hoping they are successful enough to continue. I just wonder about all this financial "good news" malarkey. I don't know who owns the stores or sponsors the galleries and events. But frankly, it's always been difficult to make art pay. It's usually a labor of love.
     
  8. Mijo

    Mijo Leica Place Veteran

    272
    Apr 11, 2013
    San Francisco
    I wonder about that myself regarding second hand equipment obtained through customers. However, some of the Leica stores and dealers are selling certified used Leica gear which is coming directly from the Leica (i.e. demos, sensor trade ins, etc.). I'm assuming those equate to sales for both Leica and the store. I spoke with one of the Leica Boutique employees in Las Vegas and I came away with the understanding that the stores and boutiques are a franchise, so I'm assuming that means fees and applicable standards that need to be maintained. I also wonder how much of a cut the Leica galleries get from the sale of prints, Salgado's prints are $8K alone. My understanding about the 12% discount was to help level the playing field b/c of the strength of the USD, if I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first (or last) time. I have attended Leica workshops and those are run by Leica employees so I'm assuming the money goes to Leica. However, I've noticed that the M workshops are now being run by Leica store employees so maybe Leica only gets a cut of that.
     
  9. Hap

    Hap Leica Place Top Veteran

    501
    Jan 9, 2016
    I am told by a very reputable camera store owner that standard split for prints is 60/40. LA and DC stores are company stores...others franchise. He also expanded on the Leica revenue story for me. Essentially, Leica is selling fewer cameras than at peak in 2011...actually less every year since. they made a fortune in 2011 and 2012 because demand substantially exceeded supply. Never made enough. However, supply never increased but demand drastically decreased. the collectable market crashed in Japan and then in China. He says that there are stores in Asia with millions of dollars of unsold collectibles. I asked him about Sony RX1 II v Leica Q. He said he can't sell RX1 II......but the Q sells whenever he gets one it. Claims it's a "badass" camera. He could n't sell a screwmount out of his shop if it mattered. ONly market left is eBay. The featured products in his store are....Sony and Fuji. Today he opened his safe and showed me a mint black Nikon S2 selling for 15K and an as new M2. INcredible.
     
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  10. PaulJ

    PaulJ Leica Place Regular

    They've brought out a load of new / updated cameras and also new / updated lenses in 2015. My guess is that this activity has driven a number of committed Leicaphiles to buy additional / replace existing gear and, as a lot of the new kit is digital and, in most cases, quite attractive looking, anyone with a few bob in their pocket would be tempted. Let's face it, there may be austerity measures in most countries but sales of luxury goods is still holding up much better than anyone ever expected.
     
  11. dalethorn

    dalethorn Guest

    I turned in my Q for the X-U (waterproofed X). I like the X images better, and I see absolutely no noise in any of my shots at 100 percent, at ISO 800. I'd recommend anyone trying the Q to also try the X - but maybe there are RAW development tricks for the Q that make it better.
     
  12. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    709
    Aug 19, 2013
    Dale, do you think the IQ of the X-U is the same as the 113 since they are basically the same camera? Asking because if I don't need a waterproof camera, the 113 is so much less than the X-U.

    Vince
     
  13. dalethorn

    dalethorn Guest

    That was my main question, my number one curiosity before buying the X-U, would the images be the same as the X, and how would they compare to the X1 that I used to have. Here's what I think. Caveat: Shooting JPEG only.

    1) Much better than the X1. The low noise level is phenomenal. The X-U must be the same as the X, otherwise the X would have to be better than the Q.

    2) I like the X-U JPEGs much better than the Q's, although the Q's images can probably be tweaked in RAW to be better.

    3) I never did get great JPEGs from the MM, although the MM's resolution was incredible. The last really good B&W's I got were from the X Vario using the lower contrast settings.

    4) The X-U (and probably the X-113) have changed physically from the X1, insofar as a bigger body, better and faster lens, much better performance. But in other respects, the somewhat primitive aspects of the X1 are retained. For example, there is no Optical Image Stabilization - it's the same as the X1.

    5) Unlike a lot of previous cameras, I'll hang onto the X-U, or get a regular X, because its image quality is the best I've had in that size and price range. And the operation is ideal.
     
  14. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    709
    Aug 19, 2013
    I have to see it to believe it. :th_salute:
     
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  15. Hap

    Hap Leica Place Top Veteran

    501
    Jan 9, 2016
    they are all rather obscenely priced..... I really like Leica...but is that much better than Fuji, Olympus, Sony?
     
  16. dalethorn

    dalethorn Guest

    The Leica X at $2000 USD is a good deal I think. The Panasonic ZS-100 at $700 is a ripoff I think.
     
  17. Hap

    Hap Leica Place Top Veteran

    501
    Jan 9, 2016
    For the time being, it is still a relatively free country and world. Choice in product purchases is good. Let the consumer decide and the "shooting" proceed. Can we still say "shoot"? I am somewhat surprised at the high prices for all in the mirrorless segment and the crash of most DSLR's, except the very best. Vince , above, has adopted a wait and see attitude about the X.
     
  18. dalethorn

    dalethorn Guest

    I agree with consumer choice, but I disagree with deception, whether it's a manufacturer or reviewer.
     
  19. Hap

    Hap Leica Place Top Veteran

    501
    Jan 9, 2016
    Dale....I'm sorry but I guess I don't comprehend your comment. What deception and on who's part? Usually, if there's some deception by anybody, it's usually quickly exposed by many , especially on the internet. the only example I can think of right now is that Volkswagen cooked the books on their diesel cars. I am glad I did not buy a diesel, although I was thinking about it, just before the semi crash in gas/oil prices.
     
  20. dalethorn

    dalethorn Guest

    I assumed your platitude was meant to soothe users whose cameras are disappointing them. Maybe if you explain what you meant by "it's a free country" then I could explain better too.