MM CMOS silently flowing in?... type 230

Discussion in 'Leica M Camera Forum' started by AlbertTRAL, May 23, 2014.

  1. AlbertTRAL

    AlbertTRAL Leica Place Regular

    • Like Like x 2
  2. Mijo

    Mijo Leica Place Veteran

    Apr 11, 2013
    San Francisco
    I wonder if the current MM will still be in production once the new one is released, sort of like the M and the M-E.
  3. kingsfan

    kingsfan Leica Place Regular

    Mar 30, 2013
    Highland Park, CA
    hopefully drop the price!
  4. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    The CMOS sensor is cheaper than the CCD. What impresses me with the CCD in the M Monochrom: sensor uniformity, low noise, native to the CCD. CMOS sensors include a lot of on-chip processing. What i would like to see, and is not available- the data sheet for the CMOS sensor used in the M240.

    Other companies make monochrome CMOS sensors, mostly for technical applications.
  5. Amin

    Amin Administrator

    Mar 28, 2013
    One of the things I appreciate about the M9 sensor compared to the M240 sensor is that the former never shows any banding, whereas the latter shows a lot of it. I wonder if the same will be true for the MM and its CMOS counterpart. As an aside, Nik Dfine does an admirable job of removing banding from the M240 files.
  6. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    Try a few different memory cards in the camera, and try some different settings in the setup.

    I end up using slower SD cards in the M Monochrom, could see a difference in noise in the image.
  7. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    My cards are pretty fast and I don't get any banding on my MM unless the buffer fills.
  8. Amin

    Amin Administrator

    Mar 28, 2013
    I'm thinking that is a separate issue from the M240, which to my understanding and experience has banding issues that are unrelated to settings and type of memory card.
  9. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    May 1, 2013
    I've seen a bit of that at higher ISOs. Nothing really obtrusive, and I'll guess very manageable with post.

    I had to choose between the Kodak-heritage CCD of the M9/ME/Monochrom and the ability to shoot live-view with an EVF on the 240. The 240's sensor is superb, I'm making use of the high ISO performance, and I can't give up the EVF. But I do miss the look of a low ISO CCD:

    10147437454_e6c44a063c_z. evening idyl by cbmn, on Flickr
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    It's worth throwing a slower SD card into it and seeing what happens. Everything electronic generates noise, faster electronics tend to generate more. You also get hit from power draw, faster cards are going to produce more "bursts". I would not rule it out until doing a quick test.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    So a follow-up, "Net Consensus" has it that the new M Monochrom is the chrome version of the M Monochrom model 10760.

    No CMOS Sensor, same "most-excellent" KAF-18500 as what is used now.

    The CMOS sensor in the Df is highly uniform, some banding creeping in at ISO 20,000. I'm not sure how much in-processing is going on for non-uniformity correction. This is a 16MPixel sensor, would be interesting to see a Monochrome version. Unlike a CCD, CMOS detectors use a lot of on-chip corrections. I'm guessing the chip and processing engine would need to be redesigned to optimize for monochrome. At least- I would do that if coming out with a monochrome CMOS based camera. More than just leaving off the mosaic filter.

    I've looked at M- Monochrom DNG files in HEX, the sensor is amazing. I'll take a couple of .RAW images using DEBUG mode and look at them in HEX. I'm betting the values are just as uniform. DNG adds in corrections for lens light-falloff for vignetting, and maps dead pixels. My M8 RAW files show that there are no dead pixels.
    • Like Like x 3