New Leica "Mini M" on the Way - Teaser Posted at Leica-Camera.com

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Amin, May 23, 2013.

  1. Amin

    Amin Administrator

    399
    Mar 28, 2013
    In June of 2012, Leica's CEO Alfred Schopf suggested that Leica would be announcing a new compact mirrorless system camera (EVIL) at Photokina 2012:

    Sources:

    Leica to launch new compact system in 2012 [update] - British Journal of Photography

    Leica to launch 'compact system camera' at Photokina 2012 (update) | Amateur Photographer

    In a subsequent interview with l-camera-forum, they appeared to back peddle:

    Source: Leica photokina Q&A Session - Leica Forum Blog

    Today Leica posted a teaser about a new "Mini M" slotted in between the current M system and the X2:

    2013-05-23_1736.


    If the prior interviews are any indication, the format size for the new camera will be at least APS-C, and this will be an interchangeable lens system rather than a fixed-lens camera. Whether the "Mini M" will use M lenses or will use a rangefinder system to focus is entirely unknown. We can reasonably speculate that the cost will be somewhere between that of the current M system and the X2.

    According to Leica, more information will be forthcoming on June 11, 2013.

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    [via LeicaRumors]
     
  2. kingsfan

    kingsfan Leica Place Regular

    126
    Mar 30, 2013
    Highland Park, CA
    if it uses M mount and is at least half the cost of an M-E, i could be down for this
     
  3. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I'm betting it will be an EVF version of the M240, take out the optical viewfinder/rangefinder. That assembly is ~$1500 of th cost.

    But I wish it was a Digital Leica CL.
     
  4. xdayv

    xdayv Leica Place Veteran

    404
    Mar 31, 2013
    Tacloban City, Philippines
    Dave
    exciting news nevertheless, if it is ala-RX1... hhhmmm.
     
  5. NJH

    NJH Leica Place Regular

    99
    Apr 29, 2013
    I agree and its interesting that over in that aforementioned forum just how many folks seem to hate this idea or are scared of it. Personally I really like the rangefinder focusing and optical viewfinder but make no mistake if I could get something to partner my M8 with a substantially better FF or APS-H sensor but EVF only for a reasonable* price then I am there.

    * - as in reasonable for Leica so we are still probably talking about something more expensive than a CaNikon FF DSLR but not £5K.
     
  6. pluton

    pluton New to Leica Place

    1
    May 24, 2013
    I like the likelyhood of the FF, M-mount, EVF-equipped unit smaller in size than the "full" M.
    Fuji is delivering useable EVF cameras at reasonable cost, so no reason why Leica can't do it at an unreasonable cost.
    Of course, a real innovation would be to can the sixty-year-old finder design that can't be use by eyeglass wearers with a lens wider than 50mm---a lot of older, richer doctors, dentists, and lawyers wear glasses, y'know--- in favor of one with a higher effective eyepoint and a larger opening. It may have been impossible to design a glasses-friendly finder 1953, but to pretend that's still true in 2013 is fraud....and bad business!
     
  7. Phoenix

    Phoenix New to Leica Place

    4
    Mar 30, 2013
    Depending on it's price tag, the Mini M might be my ticket into buying a Leica
     
  8. NJH

    NJH Leica Place Regular

    99
    Apr 29, 2013
    Just one small point about this whole EVF thing and the difference to using the optical finder. The big thing for me which the EVF will never give is a view of what is going on outside of the frame. As such if I could afford it I would of course buy an M240 over a cheaper cut down camera without the RF. However £5K is a crazy amount of money for me to spend on a camera body that like all camera bodies suffers from digital rot. Say £3K or so though and I could justify saving the pennies and just live without the optical finder. I have an M8 anyway so it could fit into a system perfectly for me. I am sure many others must be thinking along similar lines, for starters it would completely remove any concern about using lenses wider than 28mm or longer than 90mm the M8 would be reserved for walk around use with the classic RF focal lengths.

    I can only hope but can't escape the feeling it will be a digilux 2 rehash which I am sure loads of people would buy but is of zero interest to me.
     
  9. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    With the advent of the CMOSIS sensor, Leica has an advantage to bring out a full-frame mirrorless camera that can accept lenses with a small flange/sensor distance. Other full-frame compacts are fixed-lens, with optics matched to the sensor. The CMOSIS sensor has the geometry and microlenses that allow legacy lenses to be accommodated. It will be interesting to see of Leica makes the best of this.

    Personally- I prefer the viewfinder/rangefinder arrangement of the existing cameras. I bought an Olympus EP2 with the EVF-2 when it first came out. If I were designing a Leica, it would have electronically generated framelines with digitally generated parallax and field-of-view corrections. All focal lengths would be accommodated, and framelines would change spacing based on distance. No more having to optimize for 0.7m, 1m, etc.
     
  10. Duane Pandorf

    Duane Pandorf Leica Place Regular

    195
    Mar 30, 2013
    Just curious why they would still leave the M in the nomenclature if they removed the rangefinder?

    (The "M" within the nomenclature of this series of cameras comes from the first initial of "Meßsucher" (or "Messsucher"), which is the German word for "Rangefinder".)

    Not that I'm any expert on Leica since I've only owned one for a few months, but I'm betting this will be a FF Leica M with the rangefinder and not Liveview. Only framelines that match the current Summarit line of lenses and the sensor size less in MP than the M240.
     
  11. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    The Leica M1 of the 1950s had a viewfinder with projected framelines, no rangefinder- was still called a M. The MD did not have a viewfinder or rangefinder. The "M" has come to mean the M-Mount.

    Now, when is someone going to ask why Leica introduced the M3 before the M2, and the M1 after the first two... I think it's the same reason the IIIf came before the IIf and If. Same with the IIIc, IIc, and Ic.
     
  12. Amin

    Amin Administrator

    399
    Mar 28, 2013
    They've been were calling the D-LUX a mini M before the X1 came out, and now they seem to be calling all of these "M" cameras (this graphic is from Leica):

    [​IMG]

    It doesn't mean the new system will officially bear the "M" label. It probably won't, but informally they like to say these are all little versions of their M.
     
  13. usayit

    usayit Leica Place Regular Subscribing Member

    122
    Mar 31, 2013
    Northern NJ
    As Brian said... I've always known the "M" in M1-M9 and now the M240 has always indicated that its an "M" mount camera. But as Amin pointed out the graphic says otherwise.

    I sure hope the MiniM is a M mount camera of some sort at a lower price point. I am happy to have stretched my pocket to shoot Leica but unfortunately, I am pretty much priced out these days. I certainly hope its not a rebranded Lumix with a MFT mount... which is what I believe it to be more than likely. Its all fun to speculate.

    I would be happy with a EVF to mimic rangefinder like view (larger FOV with brightlines) and a M-mount w/ FF sensor. Perhaps a hybrid mount that allows native M mount lenses with electronic contacts for a new line of AF line of lenses. Leica sold their AF technology to Minolta back in the 70s (or was it 80s). IMO, still the biggest mistake ever.
     
  14. CaptZoom

    CaptZoom Leica Place Regular

    56
    Apr 11, 2013
    usayit
    Fear not, it will not be rebranded Lumix. Leica are on record stating a camera is in the works to address the mirror-less market. The goal was to present it at Photokina 2012, but they missed that deadline. Whatever this new camera will end up being, it is going to be what Leica thinks a mirrorless camera ought to be (excepting of course the M).
     
  15. Amin

    Amin Administrator

    399
    Mar 28, 2013
    Leica was on record before saying the format size would be at least APS-C, but there are strong rumors that the Panasonic GX1 replacement will have an integrated EVF as well as in-body image stabilization and a new sensor. It sounds like they're trying to do something very special with that camera, and I wouldn't mind seeing a Leica-branded version, especially if it meant that Leica was going to commit some resources to designing (as opposed to approving designs of) MFT lenses.
     
  16. serhan

    serhan Leica Place Regular

    66
    Mar 31, 2013
    NYC
    The box is opened a little bit more:
    Leica Camera AG - Home

    Both leicarumors and mirrorlessrumors are now reporting an apsc sensor with fixed zoom lens. It sounds like digilux 2. It is too bad if they don't have a m-mount camera. One more week to the announcement...
     
  17. NJH

    NJH Leica Place Regular

    99
    Apr 29, 2013
    Out of the two plausible possibilities once that one was mentioned over in t'other Leica forum it stuck in my mind as being such a highly probable outcome it seems almost a given that this is what the mini m will be. As long as it isn't stupidly expensive such a camera will undoubtedly sell like hot cakes. A few months back before my move on to the M8 I was pondering my X100 and the other X cameras but pretty much discounted them for various reasons. What I really wanted from the X100S was an X200 with a fixed short range zoom but it seems Fuji decided that instead they would chase marketing and make a camera which improved the X100 in areas I wasn't remotely interested in (even better high ISO but xtrans, focusing gimics which no one will use, faster AF but only in good light). I got ridiculed on one forum for wishing that Fuji would make a fixed short range zoom camera which just shows how divorced enthusiasts can be from reality.

    Its a shame Leica couldn't have announced this camera several months back as I likely wouldn't have bought into the M8. Now I have it though there is no going back.
     
  18. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I bought Leica M cameras to use with 80 years of lenses. The original Leica was fixed lens, but the interchangeable mount gives flexibility to the design. I'd like to see a mirrorless/ lowet-cost Leica come out, they certainly have the sensor for it. Another large-sensor/ fixed-lens camera- I'd rather have my M8.
     
  19. NJH

    NJH Leica Place Regular

    99
    Apr 29, 2013
    Yes but the only one thus far with a decently large sensor and compact zoom lens was the Canon G1-X (Ricoh GXR had a 16 Mp APS-C zoom module but it was huge). That camera was so close to hitting all the right buttons just DOA due to slow AF, horrid viewfinder and fairly bulky heavy construction. Given what Leica achieved with the X2 I believe they have already shown they can address those issues, the biggie left is how compact can they make that zoom whilst retaining class leading optical quality.

    Still though my dream is for the other plausible option.
     
  20. serhan

    serhan Leica Place Regular

    66
    Mar 31, 2013
    NYC