New Leica Mono coming soon???

Discussion in 'Leica News and Rumors' started by VINCETAN, Apr 21, 2015.

  1. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    710
    Aug 19, 2013
    http://leicarumors.com/2015/04/21/leica-m-monochrom-typ-246-camera-registered-in-korea.aspx/

    I know this is not a new rumor but I think this time, it will happen soon. Maybe even in the next few months. The reason why I think it will happen is that I am seeing a lot of certified used Leica Mono suddenly at blow away prices. A trend that I saw with the M9-P, and more recently, the M Type 240.

    The old Mono is really nice as it kept the size of the M9. The M-P 240 is not as nice since it is thicker and the big screw in the front is just not too appealing to me. Hope they can maintain the size of the old Mono but I don't think it will happen.
     
  2. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    My guess is that they want to get away from CCD sooner rather than later. Of course, it makes my first gen Mono go down I. Value for a while, but I think it will become something of a cult classic over time.

    I doubt I will want to upgrade, especially now that I have a brand new M-E and have a very well matched pair. No desire to move to anything new for years to come. In fact, the only purchase I see as even remotely possible in the next two years are a 28 and 90 mm lens and possibly a flash. No more bodies, and definitely no change of systems
     
  3. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    Phase 1 is using a new 60MPixel monochrome CCD for their latest digital back. They use CMOS for their color camera back. Dalsa, the manufacturer of the 60MPixel Monochrome sensor also makes a 32MPixel monochrome sensor in 35mm (24x36) format. A company would do well to look at that sensor.

    The banding in the sensor used in the M240 needs to be fixed before it is suitable for use in a monochrome camera. Color cameras use interpolation, 8 of 12 (2x2x3) pixels are interpolated. Monochrome- no spatial interpolation, and any introduced to cover over sensor nonuniformity would kill the advantage.

    I will not be upgrading for a long time. I went 18 years before upgrading my old monochrome digital camera to the M Monochrom...
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2015
  4. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I think this is the sensor that Phase 1 used in their newly announced CCD based Monochrome back:

    https://www.teledynedalsa.com/imaging/products/sensors/area-scan/FTF9168M/

    This is the sensor that someone SHOULD use if doing a new Monochrome camera:

    https://www.teledynedalsa.com/imaging/products/sensors/area-scan/FTF7046M/

    If anyone comes up with the spec sheet for a CMOS monochrome sensor that looks as good that has more than 18MPixels and is 24x36 format, please post a link to it in this thread.

    Nikon makes a monochrome version of the sensor used in the D4 and Df, it is 16MPixels. It is used in a microscope camera. Nikon could easlily do a Df-m. The CMOS sensor in the Df is amazing, no banding at ISO51K+.
     
  5. Mijo

    Mijo Leica Place Veteran

    272
    Apr 11, 2013
    San Francisco
    I thought the MM was going to have a longer lifecyle (for lack of a better term) than just 3 years. I won't be getting in line for the new MM anytime soon but I hope it does well and keeps the MM line going. Since picking up the current MM a couple of months ago, the only thing I wish it was able to do (in terms of what the 240 features) is adapt R lenses.
     
  6. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I will be surprised if there is a new Monochrom out this quickly. The only way it would be economical for Leica is if they are developing the next camera from the ground up to have either a color OR a monochrome sensor, both from the same family. All other components to be identical, including the firmware. There are very few differences between storing Color and Monochrome images, so this would be easy and less expensive to maintain in the long run.

    Also- it will take a lot of work to get a CMOS sensor with the uniformity required for a good native monochrome image. Phase 1 is using a CCD for the new monochrome camera, many people assumed they would move to CMOS. They did not.

    And...

    http://leicarumors.com/2014/05/23/just-what-i-have-been-waiting-for-leica-m-monochrom-typ-230.aspx/

    Leica Rumors has a habit of announcing new cameras that are not what they thought. The "new" camera above was just a chrome version of the M Monochrom, or some such "nothing different". The "246" might be a different finish on the Monochrom. The Koreans make them register any change at all for emissions testing.
     
  7. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    I think the delimitation issue on the Truesense sensors made Leica accelerate their upgrade cycle in the case of the current MM. Had the issue not developed it very well may have enjoyed a five year cycle, but I would imagine replacing sensors is expensive and Leica wants to minimize the pool going forward.

    That said, with their stated solution and commitment to owners, I bought a brand-new M-E and plan on staying with the Truesense CCD cameras for many years with the confidence that they will be either repaired or upgraded with a very generous trade-in when repair is no longer possible.
     
  8. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    It would be very, very easy to revise the cover glass on the M Monochrom. There is suitable glass available that has the same refractive index as the S8612. "That makes it easy" to quote one of my friends.
     
  9. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    You know that, but will Leica do that?
     
  10. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I've hit a life-time record for being asked to fix a problem that I warned people about... 25-years ago. I had to get out a Wordstar document to tell them how to fix it. Of course, I still use Wordstar- but wrote THAT document when EVERYONE used Wordstar...
     
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  11. Peter Klein

    Peter Klein Leica Place Regular

    64
    Dec 31, 2014
    Seattle
    Peter Klein
    Ctrl K S
     
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  12. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    La Vida Leica reports that the new MM will be announced this weekend at the Leica Store Los Angeles. While I am not interested in upgrading, I do like that mine will suddenly become a cult classic.
     
  13. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    710
    Aug 19, 2013
  14. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    710
    Aug 19, 2013
    It's official

    https://www.leicastoresf.com/store/...il&utm_term=0_685f0644d2-8ee86ea7c8-207240657

    Product Details
    Overview
    The Monochrom Typ 246 reduces digital photography to its basics. Combining the unique design behind the original Monochrom and the technology of the Leica M/M-P (Typ 240) the new Leica Monochrom offers unparalleled performance with incredible low light capabilities due to its maximum ISO of 25000. The Leica Monochrom features a one of a kind way of capturing images, and opens up a whole new world of creativity for the photographer.

    Sensor – 24mp CMOS
    Featuring a 24 megapixel resolution CMOS sensor similar to the one found in the Leica M the Monochrom’s sensor has no need for color filters. The Monochrom also needs no interpolation for calculation of luminance values. A brilliant black and white image featuring more detail and contrast than ever possible is the result of this unique sensor technology.

    The Monochom’s sensor has an amazingly high ISO ceiling at a max ISO of 25000. This makes available light and low light photography easier and more enjoyable than ever before.

    For the first time the Monochrom features live view. Live view, like the on the Leica M, allows you to not only see a live preview of your exposure, but also gives you the ability to focus with the aid of focus peaking and 10x magnification.

    Finally, the new sensor gives the Monochrom the ability to capture high definition video in brilliant black and white.

    2GB Buffer
    Like the Leica M-P (Typ 240) the Monochom features a 2GB buffer allowing for fast response times, and more fluid continues shooting.

    Sapphire Crystal Glass
    More durable than any other display out there the LCD display features a scratch resistant and extremely durable sapphire crystal display. The display also features an antireflective protective coating which makes viewing in any light situation a breeze.
     
  15. Mijo

    Mijo Leica Place Veteran

    272
    Apr 11, 2013
    San Francisco
    I received announcement emails from the SF and Miami stores. Looks like they are running trade in programs.
     
  16. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    What is the trade-in deal?

    I'm just curious, I plan on sticking with my M Monochrom classic for years to come.
     
  17. kingsfan

    kingsfan Leica Place Regular

    125
    Mar 30, 2013
    Highland Park, CA
    wish they made a Mono the size of an M6 and had no screen!

    (or maybe i should get back to developing...)
     
  18. Mijo

    Mijo Leica Place Veteran

    272
    Apr 11, 2013
    San Francisco
    The emails weren't specific about the trade in, you have to contact the stores directly. I'm curious as well.
     
  19. Armanius

    Armanius Leica Place Regular

    39
    Mar 30, 2013
    Texas
    Mutley
    Good to see a new M camera! Makes used ones more affordable.
     
  20. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I will be sticking with my M Monochrom. What I find amazing about it: sensor uniformity. I read Jono Slack's review and he states that the banding issues of the M240 are still present in the M246, reduced- that Leica worked hard to get rid of the problem, but banding was still present. I dealt with enough sensor banding in the 1980s and 1990s, my M Monochrom, M9, M8, and Df are free and clear of it. Banding is particularly noticeable in monochrome images as they do not get interpolated. It is also noticeable in midwave and longwave IR sensors. But that was 30+ years ago for me. I wrote a lot of software to correct it.

    I understand the decision to bring the M Monochrom out almost 3 years after the M9; a lot of people thought the idea was crazy (not me) and the timing was just months before the M240 came out. Sales of the M Monochrom were better than expected, I am glad to see a monochrome camera continue in the Leica line-up.

    But... We can also expect a replacement for the M240 before the end of 2015, Leica seems to follow a 3-year model life-cycle. I would expect the next camera to have a better sensor. I would have preferred the next camera be developed from the ground-up to offer color/monochrome options. With the greatly increased amount of memory available in embedded processors, it would have been possible to have the same firmware support both the color and monochrome version of the camera. All that needed to change was the sensor, and a method for the camera to detect which sensor was in it. That's how I would have done it. I get to say these things, I write a lot of embedded code.

    One question, and I will have to look: does the new M246 support the Olympus EVF-4? The EVF-2 is supported on the M240, and it is 5 years old. Barely adequate on the Olympus EP2. The EVF-4 is much higher resolution, but requires a faster interface to drive it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015