New Leica T mount to be announced ...

Discussion in 'Leica T / TL / CL Forum' started by carlb, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    780
    May 1, 2013
    Additional Leica CL mirrorless camera information | Leica Rumors

    The Leica CL. Looks much like a Fuji X-E3 or Oly Pen-F - unsurprisingly.

    Perfect for what I'm looking for: built-in EVF, smaller size. My only problem - I now have the SL which I love for full-frame performance. I have to think if there are times when I'd want to take out a CL instead. The SL and its 24-90mm are really big and heavy, but I love the images they take together.

    Hmmm.
     
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  2. JonVdG

    JonVdG Leica Place Regular

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    Apr 29, 2016
    Boulder, Colorado
    Jon
    Interesting. I was hoping to see an integrated EVF on a T body someday. And it's great to see Leica keeping it compact. As much as I appreciate the performance of the SL, I could never successfully incorporate it into my workflow. It's just too much camera. I don't think I can ever go back to DSLR sized equipment. For me, compact rangefinders are the heart of Leica as their mirrorless design revolutionized what was possible logistically for a lot of photographers. Minimalistic design elements, such as those on the M and T, just make it even better.
     
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  3. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

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    May 1, 2013
  4. JonVdG

    JonVdG Leica Place Regular

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    Apr 29, 2016
    Boulder, Colorado
    Jon
    It was officially announced this morning. Looks like a great camera, albeit for almost $1000 more than the TL2. But I love it’s compact design, much like the GM5 you mentioned. Reminds me a lot of the original CL, which is probably what they had in mind. That was a great little cam as well. I’m looking forward to trying the EVF on this one. I hope it’s as good as the Panasonic GX8.

    For those looking for the official details:
    Details // Leica CL // Leica-APS-C System // Photography - Leica Camera AG
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  5. JonVdG

    JonVdG Leica Place Regular

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    Apr 29, 2016
    Boulder, Colorado
    Jon
    So far, I’m only seeing a kit available (at Leica Store SF), which means we would have to spend a minimum of $3800 to get the body along with the 18mm lens. I’m never one to complain about Leica’s prices because I think you get what you pay for, but this little camera is starting to wander into M territory. Hopefully, it will be released without the lens so that current M and T lens owners can take advantage it.
     
  6. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    780
    May 1, 2013
    Look at the Miami store, camera-only available ...

    Placed a pre-order. Can always re-assess when the queue comes to me, but this is the kind of camera I really like: beautiful pictures, intuitive, compact, full featured, excellent quality build.

    The battery is shared with the V-Lux, meaning there is at least a measure of Panasonic collaboration on the design. That would be a very good thing, in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  7. JonVdG

    JonVdG Leica Place Regular

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    Apr 29, 2016
    Boulder, Colorado
    Jon
    Ah, thanks. I wonder why San Francisco doesn't have the body only available for pre-order. In any case, I'm tempted to do the same for all the reasons you mentioned. I figured there was some collaboration with Panasonic, and I'm guessing the viewfinder has a lot of Panasonic tech in it. That's a good thing if it does because Panasonic is leading the way with camera tech right now, at least in my opinion. That Leica - Panasonic collaboration is definitely not another Mercedes - Chrysler.
     
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  8. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    780
    May 1, 2013
    Agreed. That automotive pairing is not one of the better I've seen. Leica, while being careful with their Panasonic partnership, has really been able to expand their offerings and electronics.

    Probably don't wait on a pre-order. I did on the M10, and still haven't had my queue spot come up. Although, I think they cut my spot after the used SL purchase, regardless of my wishes.
     
  9. JonVdG

    JonVdG Leica Place Regular

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    Apr 29, 2016
    Boulder, Colorado
    Jon
    Did you cancel a new SL purchase and that's why they cut your M10 spot? Was that Leica Store Miami?
     
  10. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    780
    May 1, 2013
    I had been waiting on an M10 since late February with the Miami Store when they listed a used SL at a good price. I decided to give that SL a try in early August, thinking I could always just sell it if I like the M10 more.

    I've since read of others getting an M10 nearly right away now, just by calling around to see who might happen to have one. Tempting, but I have the early launch price (three hundred dollars or such less than the current price). I just don't think the store is that incentivized to sell at the lower price.

    We'll see how things go with the CL with the Miami store ... Amazon shows a December 15 release day.
     
  11. JonVdG

    JonVdG Leica Place Regular

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    Apr 29, 2016
    Boulder, Colorado
    Jon
    Good luck, I hope you get one soon. I'll be curious to hear what you think of both the M10 and CL. My M lenses have found a happy home on the T for the moment, but I enjoy trying new combinations.
     
  12. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    780
    May 1, 2013
    At this point, the things I don't like about the SL:

    1) Too Big. Not a deal breaker.
    2) Not intuitive enough for an old-school photographer to "just use it." I have my way around it now, but still. Annoying.
    3) "Brunhilde" is flipping heavy, and near ridiculous with "Big Bertha" the 24-90mm zoom. This is a real problem.

    Right now, I love what I can do with the pair so much that I put up with the above. That 24-90mm range is marvelous, and sharp throughout. I use a back-of-the-wrist type support strap used for heavy DSLRs. The auto-focus has been assured and quick, even in low-light.

    But the pair is so heavy that even with transferring to left hand to carry or carrying in the Lowepro shoulder-strapped case, my right elbow is hurting. Even right now, depending on what motion I'm doing. Perils of becoming "fuddier and duddier."

    On the other hand ... The M cameras don't have a singular decent range zoom for scenery photography. The 16-18-21mm Tri-Elmar doesn't cover short telephoto, the 28-35-50mm isn't wide enough.

    With care, I can get the crispness I like from the Leica APS-C sensors. Two of my "ah, nice look" shots with the T and X-Vario (same sensor as the original 'T'):

    28773466430_a79cd1a25c_b.
    centerville lake
    by Carl B, on Flickr

    37508430850_aa8f8c9bb8_b.
    Moundsview Blvd view SE
    by Carl B, on Flickr

    So, perhaps this Leica CL will be my "just right" camera ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
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  13. JonVdG

    JonVdG Leica Place Regular

    29
    Apr 29, 2016
    Boulder, Colorado
    Jon
    Nice shots. I've struggled with the zoom / varifocal issue as well. My solution is two bodies and two fixed focal lenses. With the M and the T, that's easy to do. And of course, it would be even easier with the CL. With the SL, you're probably better off with a single zoom. Although I hate to say that because I've become increasingly anti-zoom over the years. Fixed focals just have so much going for them in terms of IQ, ergonomics, etc., and as long as my feet still work, I think they make me a better photographer.
     
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  14. M. Valdemar

    M. Valdemar Leica Place Regular

    128
    Aug 5, 2013
    New York City
    The Leica T mount camera looks a lot like the Lumix GX85. (maybe it mostly is one).

    I think the last thing they need is another proprietary mount. It would have been a much better idea with a M4/3 mount, in my opinion.

    I don't see how this new Leica could take images any better than the Lumix GX85 and M3/4 Summilux lens I already have for it. Not to mention the superb kit lens.

    $4000 for this? No thank you. I guess I am not their target demographic.
     
  15. JonVdG

    JonVdG Leica Place Regular

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    Apr 29, 2016
    Boulder, Colorado
    Jon
    Were you referring to the CL? As someone who has shot extensively with the GX85, I agree - there are a lot of similarities. But also a lot of differences. And I think you make a valid point about image quality. For most print sizes, it could be difficult to see the difference between the 24 MP APS-C in the CL and the 16 MP M4/3 (especially without its low pass filter). At very large print sizes (beyond 24 inches long dimension), the CL might shine through a bit more. In my experience, there is also a greater feeling of depth in the APS-C images, and I'm not referring to depth of field. Rather, just a greater separation of subjects in certain circumstances. It's slight, but noticeable from time to time. On the other hand, the GX85 has fantastic Dual OIS that allows handheld shooting with slow lenses in conditions that only Summilux lenses dared venture into previously.

    Given the somewhat unexpectedly high price tag of the CL, I'll be curious to see how it sells and if Leica makes a price adjustment.
     
  16. carlb

    carlb Leica Place Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    780
    May 1, 2013
    Since I already have the Visoflex finder, the TL2 would have a big cost advantage over the CL ...

    I do put a big premium on an interface that I like and overall camera-evf-lens dimensions that readily fit into a vertical belt-loop case. The TL2 wouldn't be grabbed to shoot as often as the CL.

    I'm waiting on the CL for now.