Showcase [Showcase] MS-Optical 50/1.1 Sonnetar M mount

Discussion in 'Leica M and LTM Mount Lens Sample Image Showcase' started by uhoh7, Jan 29, 2015.

  1. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    MS-Optical 50/1.1 Sonnetar M mount

    16397027781_89027151c6_b. Sonnetar and fast friends by unoh7, on Flickr

    At 190 grams, the smallest lightest superspeed ever made. Modeled directly on the CZJ 50/1.5.

    16211256428_cddca95baf_b. L1027393 by unoh7, on Flickr

    15778867203_136486f1f1_b. L1027359 by unoh7, on Flickr

    16397971232_2104d624f1_b. L1027406 by unoh7, on Flickr

    16212659409_4ca2368d9e_b. Olive Looks by unoh7, on Flickr

    all shots above at f/1.1 on the M9

    The lens can take filters three ways, with exterior threads, interior threads and threads at the front of the hood. The M9 can only go to 4000, so for some of these shots there is a new 3 stop ND filter, reversed and screwed to the exterior threads, then the hood screws to the exposed threads of the 55 filter.

    Caps are unusual: both screw over the elements. Rear cap is tiny and covers element only. Front cap came screwed to reversed hood, which was screwed to from of lens.

    Stopless aperture is reverse of normal direction. Many blades, very smooth and heavy to turn. Focus is a bit lighter but well dampened. There is a small knob like the CV skopars. The entire lens turns with focus. Coma adjustment, which moves the rear element in and out with fingertip rotation, I left as it came. This is also very dampened. Overall this is a very compact lens.

    It arrived new today at a cost of 1064USD.
     
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  2. ChrisBail

    ChrisBail Leica Place Regular

    55
    Dec 24, 2014
    These look great to me. I'm really excited to receive mine now. It looks like you got a great deal as well. I paid $100 more for mine, with the hood and caps, that's still making it's way to me from Japan.

    The size difference between this lens and the CV 50/1.1 looks shocking. I'm eager to compare it in person with my own CV 50/1.1 and Canon 50/1.2.
     
  3. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    That's a great price that you got it for, a very unique lens.Optically- it looks closer to the 5cm F2 Sonnar, with an "air gap" between the 2nd and 3rd element. The original Sonnar filled in the gap with low-index of refraction glass to eliminate those 2 air/glass interfaces.

    I thought about making one of my custom J-3's with the adjustment for the rear group, need to play with that and see what it does. Would appreciate it if you post some examples with the "Coma control" set.
     
  4. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    TY guys.

    It's a handful, but can produce some cool stuff. I was trying the various coma settings today, but focus was not always as I expected on M9. The "default" focus does work pretty well though, which is supposedly at 4m, but in fact is better closer than the 2 and 1m setting which bring the element closer to the sensor.

    My A7 has been out getting a new thin sensor cover, and it will be easier to test this lens on that body with the live view.

    Brian, what effect should I see as the rear element moves "out" (towards sensor) or 'in" (towards front element)?

    I'm trying to figure what will give me best edges at f/8 when I want to do some landscapes etc.

    TY so much

    Flare test, F/16:
    16373842966_5b09bceec4_b. L1027429 by unoh7, on Flickr

    It seems optimized for this distance WO: (default coma)
    15776439844_67f900f65c_b.
    L1027347 by unoh7, on Flickr

    and at 5.6:
    16398089561_927886d951_b. L1027369 by unoh7, on Flickr
    but I can't get edges like this at infinity yet.

    here are instructions:
    16332134976_7c23b61e1e_b.
    Sonnetar Coma Ring by unoh7, on Flickr
     
  5. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    reading these instructions....

    I would experiment with it, and have some Christmas lights across the frame to measure Coma...
     
  6. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    The instructions are way off for M9, Focus wise.

    It has a very special, always round aperture, from germany.

    Here it is at f/1.6:
    15785605943_9f2f6c01f9_b.
    L1027479 by unoh7, on Flickr

    No mistaking the Sonnar Bokeh, but it seems very rich with the color, more modern in that respect. ;)
     
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  7. raid

    raid Leica Place All-Pro

    Apr 12, 2013
    USA
    Raid
    How do you compare the optical qualities of this lens with those of the CV 50/1.1?
    They are priced similarly.

    Thanks.
     
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  8. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    Hi Raid
    Very early to really tell, but:
    For good technical 1.1 you must have a large lens with more elements and APSH if possible. The best superspeed is obviously the .95, and we see what a monster it is.

    The CV 50/1.1 has been a really good lens for me, and for an event i would take it over the Sonnetar, because it is reliable and predictable. It focuses very well at 1.1 on the M9 and makes really nice color. Bokeh is good, but not great, but not terrible. It's also quite good stopped down.

    The Sonnetar I'm beginning to think is really a super-color CZJ 1.5 with the option to go all the way to 1.1. Unlike the CV, which is not going anywhere I don't really need it, the Sonnetar can be dropped in pocket and never noticed. As we can see the look is sonnar on steroids, but without the nikkor tendency to completely explode wide open, in close. So perhaps I would say it's an art lens, that will be unpredictable, make more misses, but then deliver some very very special shots, which no other lens can do.

    It seems to me an expert lens on the M9, which will take some serious practice to get really good at using. But I have high hopes for my new A7M which returns with a thin sensor cover Monday, and then I won't be fighting the calibration and can really test the coma adjustment.

    In short the CV 50/1.1 is far easier (if you have good calibration) and more predictable, and very effective at 1.1 (underrated) but a real pain to carry.

    The best f/1.1 lens is the one you actually have in the bag LOL
     
  9. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    I'll think I'll try to just stay content at f/1.5, where my 1937 CZJ and 1963 Zomz are both exceptional, and accurate.
     
  10. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    The 1938 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar "T", wide-open.

    COMA!

    Would be interesting to try the Coma control of the F1.1 for a shot like this.
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    Gorgeous shot Brian :)

    Hopefully everyone realizes it's very easy to get to the Full size image from these :)

    F/1.6:
    16211257768_8a9b0d871f_b.
    L1027392 by unoh7, on Flickr

    f/4 or faster:
    16404729102_cf68e89d1e_b.
    Stopped Table by unoh7, on Flickr

    wide open:
    15777375244_f8a4d10b9c_b.
    L1027353 by unoh7, on Flickrlowl

    The lens gets very glowy wide open, which masks somewhat, the possible fact it's not all that soft when you find something in the POF. Soft/Sharp has an entirely different meaning for me at 1.2 and faster. By 1.1 it is a relative matter.

    I would say this lens can bring details into striking relief wide open, as evidenced by the last shot, so 1.1 is a real option, albeit with considerable aberration :) The designer of course is totally up front about this, and we would all expect a 1.1 sonnar to be well......quite interesting :)

    But at 1.6 it is really firing on all cylinders and the glow is way down.

    16211373690_db2616ebcd_z.
    Untitled by unoh7, on Flickr
     
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  12. raid

    raid Leica Place All-Pro

    Apr 12, 2013
    USA
    Raid
    Why are you adding a coating over your A7 sensor?
     
  13. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    I had the cover glass replaced by Kolari with a much thinner one. Read about it at dgi-llloyd or in this thread:

    http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1340474?b=2

    I should have the camera back monday. This mod could bring A7 performance with RF Glass close to M240 with some lenses. like SEM21 SEM24 28 cron etc.
     
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  14. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
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  15. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    • Like Like x 2
  16. ChrisBail

    ChrisBail Leica Place Regular

    55
    Dec 24, 2014
    My Sonnetar arrived today. I'm still testing out the focus adjustment. I think I have it pretty much worked out for indoors at the distances I usually shoot at. I have my coma adjustment just a little past the red dot toward infinity.

    I shot several of our son taking his first bites of food, but I don't like to post those shots online for public viewing, so here are a couple other wide open samples:

    Click on the photos to make them larger.

    Focus was on the text on the lens.
    L1010137-L.

    Focus was on Ellie's right (my left) eye.
    L1010145-2-L.
     
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  17. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    Congrats Chris!!!!
     
  18. ChrisBail

    ChrisBail Leica Place Regular

    55
    Dec 24, 2014
    Thanks! I'm happy to report that the lens did just fine with the baby food pictures as well. :)

    I'm going to give the lens a try on my MP as well, once I get a little more used to the focus and do some more testing outside of the house.
     
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  19. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    You guys are killing me....
     
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  20. uhoh7

    uhoh7 Leica Place Regular

    163
    Oct 14, 2014
    I was waiting for this LOL. I know how you love these sonnars, and do such nice work with the mounts. This thing is really a work of art and a steal for the price. :)

    On A7M, the new 1300USD M240 alternative:
    16431597711_644400dd55_b.
    desk by unoh7, on Flickr
     
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