unload Nikon for M8.2/M9 or M240

Discussion in 'Leica M Camera Forum' started by aaronz28, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. aaronz28

    aaronz28 Leica Place Regular

    63
    Dec 17, 2014
    So - i recently bought a D7100 and a couple Sigma ART lenses - but have been bitten by the Leica bug -

    my intro to the Leica world came in the form of a vintage M3 - with it, i got a 35mm f3.5, 50 f2, and 90 collapsable


    after having my first 10 rolls of film developed - i'm totally sold on the Leica and am actually considering unloading all my Nikon stuff and getting a digital Leica -
    i do not shoot professionally, but totally as a hobby - so yah it would be total overkill =- but thats just kinda how i am.

    Interestingly enough - almost every review/comparison i've read puts the D7100 or D610 full frame equal or better than any of the Leica M9 or M240 -
    i find this disturbing as in order to get into a used M9 - its 3k unless you find one at a steal.

    i get the whole smaller/niche/name etc. - but is a run of the mill Nikon really up to par with a M9 or 240?

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    The CMOS sensor in the Nikon is "different", gives a different look. The CCD in the M8, M9, and M Monochrom- output analog, gets converted to digital off-the-sensor. The unprocessed/raw analog output from the detector is digitized, a minimum of digital processing is applied in the camera.

    The CMOS sensor used in the Nikon and most other cameras: signal processing is used as the image data is acquired. Signal averaging is used to improve signal to noise ratio.

    CMOS sensors of just a few years ago produced much more noise in the final image than does the CCD used in the Leica. My Leica M8 produces a much cleaner image than does my Olympus EP2, which is 3years newer.

    If you can live within ISO2500, like manual focus, like the colors that you see with the camera posted here- it is for you. ISO 25,600, etc- CMOS signal processing is hard to beat. I bought a Nikon Df for my DSLR. It makes a great companion to a Leica.

    If you have the rangefinder "itch", go for it. You might also look at a used M8 for $1500 or so. At that price, it is not going to drop much further- you can always resell it. An M9 at $3,000- I also believe it will not drop much more than that as Leica is standing behind the camera with free sensor replacements for the cover glass issue.
     
  3. aaronz28

    aaronz28 Leica Place Regular

    63
    Dec 17, 2014
    thats helpful - although the technology is a bit beyond my pay grade lol -

    i'll say this - i prefer vinyl and 8tracks to CDs even though you could argue that CDs are sharper/cleaner/less noisy -

    since i don't shoot professionally, spending 5k on 240 is not gonna happen - and even 3k on a m9 would not be practical -
    however, i could see myself popping 1500 for an upgraded M8 if i could find one - i'd be even happier spending less just to try it out - and if it just doesn't "do it" for my stuff - which basically consists of family pix, and **** i sell on eBay - :D i could recoup my investment rather easily i suspect.

    thanks Brian

    A
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. asiafish

    asiafish Leica Place All-Pro

    Aug 9, 2013
    Bakersfield, CA
    Andrew
    Despite this being a gear forum, I will say that ultimately gear doesn't matter that much. A crappy picture shot with the M Monochrom is still a crappy picture (and I've my fair share of them), while a powerful image shot with an iPhone loses none of its power.

    Like Brian says, its not about the specs with Leica, but the experience, the purely subjective look and just the pleasure of using it.
     
  5. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I love using the M8- bought it over 5 years ago for $2500. I like having the 1/8000th top shutter speed.

    14500177976_0e39f13163_b. At the Playground

    It's better now than ever with the uncompressed RAW mode being unlocked.

    This is ISO2500 equivalent (ISO160 -4ev, then "push Processed" in Photoshop.).

    14470625147_c35caeb74b_b. skate4_ISO2500

    ISO 1250 equivalent, (ISO160 -3EV): I can't see the difference between my M8 and M9 at ISO1250.

    14536949274_27b732905c_b. Marine Corp Museum, M8
     
  6. aaronz28

    aaronz28 Leica Place Regular

    63
    Dec 17, 2014
    yeah - an M8 is a serious consideration for me right now -
    i'd love to get my hands on one to shoot around the house - - i was worried about my manual focusing ability - but i didn't seem to have any issues with the m3
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. aaronz28

    aaronz28 Leica Place Regular

    63
    Dec 17, 2014
    if anyone has a used M8u or an M9 at a steal - lemme know :D
     
  8. aaronz28

    aaronz28 Leica Place Regular

    63
    Dec 17, 2014
    so i've pretty much ruled out the M8 - i want bigger than 10mp
    there is a pretty good deal locally for a m240 - about 1500 bucks more than i can pick up a use M9
    is the difference between the 9 and 240 justified?
    cheers
     
  9. ChrisBail

    ChrisBail Leica Place Regular

    55
    Dec 24, 2014
    I can't say that I know if the price difference between the M9 and 240 is justified, as I've never had my hands on a 240. I think it depends on how important the high ISO capability is to you. It doesn't matter a lot to me, so I didn't see the point in spending the extra money. I picked up a used M9 instead.

    I can say that definitely like the M9 better than my M8. Is it twice the camera? No, but I'm going to keep the M9 and sell my M8.

    I don't quite understand the draw of the M8u over the M8, though...I understand the upgraded screen glass is nice, but honestly, the back screen isn't good on the M8 or M9 for anything other than a quick check of composition and focus. It's not a fair representation of the final image quality. Also, the 1/8000 shutter speed is nice to have on the M8...I'll kind of miss that.
     
  10. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    If you can afford the M240- go for it. As to which camera that you prefer, some M240 buyers love it, others have cone back to the M9. The latter- I suspect that deep down it's because the M9 is about as close to a film Leica that you can find. The M240- video, live-view, EVF, all the features of a mirrorless camera.
     
  11. aaronz28

    aaronz28 Leica Place Regular

    63
    Dec 17, 2014
    well - i found and pulled the trigger on a used M9 that needs a little work - -

    i'm confused though - for me, no need for video, i'm not sure how effective live view would be with a manual focus (at least for me)
    but what other benefits of a mirrorless cam are there?

    cheers
    A
     
  12. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    What work does the M9 need?

    Mirrorless: I bought the Olympus EP2 with the EVF2 about 5 years ago. The EVF2 is the same used by the M240. I use the M8 and M9 much more than the Olympus, just easier to focus. For the long lenses- bought a Nikon Df. No video in it either, does have live-view. I rarely use it. Electronic viewfinders are getting better, and will continue to improve... but with regard to clarity and time-lag, optical viewfinders are better.
     
  13. ChrisBail

    ChrisBail Leica Place Regular

    55
    Dec 24, 2014
    Congrats on the M9! I hope you like it.

    Mine needed RF calibration when I got it. What work does yours need?
     
  14. VINCETAN

    VINCETAN Leica Place Top Veteran

    710
    Aug 19, 2013
    If I am not mistaken, the M8 and M8u have the same amount of Megapixel.

    As for M9 or M 240, as much as I love the M9-P, I like the M 240 more. It gives me a lot of flexibility with the Live View and the use of EVF. I love the ability to use lenses like the 100mm APO Elmarit or the 180-R Elmarit or even the weird Petzval on one body. Not as fast as the SLR when you use those lens but none the less, it works.
     
  15. aaronz28

    aaronz28 Leica Place Regular

    63
    Dec 17, 2014
    the guy said it just needs some cleaning on the jog wheel - and one of the number LCDs are out - so no real functionality issues - but for the price - i couldn't pass it up -

    i've never shot with a digital Leica and i've only had my M3 for a short time - so i'm kinda looking forward to playing with them seriously - and if it suits me- -will definitely sell the Nikon stuff - i don't shoot professionally, only a hobbiest - and i've NEVER used the Live View - so i don't see missing that from the 240 or the 7100 for that matter - for video - i have other toys to play with so i've never really used that feature either :D
     
  16. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    Must have been a great price! You can always send it in for repair if you want.
     
  17. aaronz28

    aaronz28 Leica Place Regular

    63
    Dec 17, 2014
    yes - about 2/3 of what they are consistently selling for on eBay -
    i figure 1) a CLA can't possibly cost 1000 bucks to get it to top shape -
    and 2) even if it does - a CLA'ed M9 is still an honest 3k or more camera and i'll still have less than that into it -

    so either way - its an experiment for me - one i can feel safe about unloading and getting my money out of - but i highly doubt i'll sell it either way -

    i
     
  18. aaronz28

    aaronz28 Leica Place Regular

    63
    Dec 17, 2014
    question though - at one time I considered sending my M3 and lenses to Youxin Ye - but i was able to clean up the shutter ring myself and the camera has been great since - i can't pretend to know the differences mechanically between a film and digital cam, but is he a good source should I want to send the M9 in? I get it in tomorrows UPS - i've never been se excited about a piece of gear :D

    like Christmas in January lol
     
  19. Brian

    Brian Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    I trust Youxin with all of my mechanical cameras.

    I would send a digital camera to Leica for repair.
     
  20. aaronz28

    aaronz28 Leica Place Regular

    63
    Dec 17, 2014
    so I got the M9 - its really quite awesome -
    here she is with the Zeiss 50 f1.5 I got from Brian -
    sitting on the 8track case in my 1979 Coupe DeVille -
    View attachment 9682

    only issues i discovered -
    1) inside the view finder - one of the indicator lights (for the digital LED numbers) is out - so an 8 is just missing the bottom right leg - making it look like an upside down 6
    2) when the images are perfectly in tune - you still see some vertical shift in the VF - this took me a few minutes to solve as I was questioning as to whether i had something in focus - and i have to say - the LCD screen on a M9 (or at least this one) leaves much to be desired - it really only is suitable for exposure in my mind - sure you can tell if an image is in focus or not - but not without zooming in. I'm not sure if this is a RF calibration issue or what - but its noticeable but i quickly leanrned to compensate for it - I think i'm gonna pop for a VF magnifier -

    fwiw - i was just as accurate in my focusing as the AF is on my Nikon D7100 with the Sigma 50 ART lens I have - just naturally takes a little bit longer..

    here are some images I shot with it - this shot with my collapsible 90mm Summicron that came with my M3 kit -
    View attachment 9683

    and the rest were taken with the Zeiss 50
    View attachment 9684
    View attachment 9685
    View attachment 9686